Help! Overflow coolant and chattered engine noise |
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Posted: April/08/16 at 7:32pm |
Hello,
My 04 MCS is overflowing with coolant and sometimes overheat. I have the aluminum expansion tank and every time I changed gears about 3 to 4k plus rpm my coolant is bubbling out of the cap. This is my third caps from the dealer. When the coolant is cool the level would be about an inch and a half in the expansion tank. Drive normal and I still get the overflow of the coolant. Water pump, housing, and thermostat 3 months old. Engine cap is clean, not milky. This overflow happens after I installed 2% ATI to my 15% SC prior. Before I don't get the over heat with just the 15%. I am aware that by adding 2% and 15% your engine is hotter than normal. But I should be getting overflow or over heating this often. Do I need a lower temp thermostat? 180degree thermostat? Or is it something else is going on? Prior to this...everything was ok. Second problem. Prior to the 15% SC pulley I don't get the chattering noise from the engine driver side. After 15% SC pulley installed I started to hear a light chattering noise when I accelerate to 4K plus rmp. You only can hear it when the car is in motion. It sounds like someone throw a hand full of rice to a metal/aluminum ceiling. A month later I installed the 2% ATI pulley i still get the chattering noise. Now when I accelerate to 4K plus rpm, the rpm needle would drop for a bit and goes back up slowly as I accelerae. Changing gears 4 through 6 the needle would drop a bit. Is my belt slipping? I have the Gator 535 belt. Or is my clutch is about to go down hill? Any advice is appreciate. Thank you. |
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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1: You have a blown head gasket.
2: Your clutch is worn. Oh wait, you said RPMs go down and then up. Could be symptom of your bad head gasket. 3. Some chatter is normal from the dual mass flywheel and would be more common on cold mornings. Would need to hear the noise to know if it is this or something else.
Edited by CORNERS - April/09/16 at 1:54am |
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Thank you Corner! Love your videos on you tube. Seen them all. I'm a fan and learned a lot from it.
1: Not what I want to hear. Wish I was close to your area. I will do my best to replace the gasket with your video as a reference. 2: If bad gasket is the symptom, how come my oil has no water in it or has that milky look? 3: Maybe the word "chatter" is the wrong term to described. It's more like a card attached to a bicycle wheel sound effect. The sound comes on only when the car is moving at high speed RPM around 4 or 5K plus during accelerating. In the attached picture, this is my over flow looks like on a normal drive. It seeped out slowly. If I drove hard raising the RPM 4 to 5K it will boil out more. I think in time when the coolant is below minimum my temp guage creeping up slowly. Than I refill.
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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1. If you want a second opinion before digging in, have a leak down test done. It will tell exactly where gases are going.
2. Head gaskets can many different ways: oil-> water, water-> oil, or combustion gas-> water or combustion gas -> oil. 3. That sounds more like a flutter. Could be due to belt vibration or the head gasket problem (you may be hearing combustion sounds making their way into the cooling system)
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Thanks. I will look into "lead down test" first. How can I stop belt vibration? The sounds started after I installed the 15% sc pulley and a new belt tensioner.
One other thing I forgot to mention. I do sometime get a rough start in the morning and CEL come on with P301 cylinder 1 misfire. Spark plug are in good condition. I have NKG spark plugs and MSD coil. I think you are right about the head gasket is the culprit. Thank you so much for the comments this helped out a lot. I will keep you posted.
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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The check engine light and p0301 is the missing piece of information that pretty much confirms that you have a blown head gasket and you will find the failure between cylinder 1 and a coolant passage, either in the head gasket itself or as a cracked cylinder head. I would fix that and worry about belt later as the head gasket is probably the source of the noise.
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Will it be ok to drive? If taken lightly. Will probably dive into this next weekend. |
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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Hard to say. Depends on the severity. A small HG leak might be ok for a long time. A big leak could melt/damage the aluminum cylinder head.
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Thank you for the replied. Drove to work just to test if it will overheat again (90 mi round trip). It didn't overheat. Just a small overflow drip from the cap. Although, I can smell the coolant scent as it drip onto the heat shield. Got home after work and check on the coolant and this is what it looks like. Greenish/light brown. No sign of milky residue in the oil cap. Hoping its a small HG leak. Just ordered parts. Will be diving in this weekend if time allows.
Great opportunity to stretch the Porsche's leg next two weeks Will keep you posted on the out come. |
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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Could have combustion gases in there, not sure, would need to test with a test strip.
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Well...it's confirmed. A blown head gasket. My #1 sparkplug tube when removed spark plug contained water. The other three spark plugs are dry. Disassemble the engine and every thing was going well until I got to the chain tensioner bolt. Did the same procedure like your video on youtube. Pushed pretty hard and than the bolt stripped! NO........
What is be the best way to remove stripped bolt? Thank you.
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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Did you use a six point socket and a wobble extension? If not, get a six point socket and it still might be salvageable. For a more direct shot, remove wheel and wheel liner. It would be really hard to round this bolt off to the point of not being able to save it.
Next steps if that fails would be to get a bolt extractor set, can probably get it over this bolt, I think there is enough room.
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Hi Corner,
Thank you for your replied. Yes I was able to removed the bolt with the extractor. Here is the status...Car is back together. A big THANK YOU from your videos for guidance. Took two weeks to do it b/c I had only the two Saturdays to work on. The good news and bad news. The Good news, when putting the engine back everything went smoothly. It starts great! And overheating is gone! The bad news and I am in a bit of a crunch. I get a very rough idle. "pute, pute, pute, pute...." Alot of force coming off from the exhaust. The engine wont Rev past 2000 rpm. My CEL and EML came on. The codes I've got is P0122 (Throttle/Pedal Position sensor/Switch A Circuit Low). I also get a light rattle noise coming from the valve cover. If I Rev the engine and hold at 1000 rpm the engine sounds normal and smooth. When turn I turned the engine off you can hear the clunking or thunk sound of the engine. Any help would greatly be appreciated. I took my time with this. I checked and rechecked everything to make sure all wires and plugs are ok. Even took pictures of my torn apart the engine process just in case I forget something when put it back together. Thank you. |
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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Hard to say. Clear the code, double check all connections, especially electrical, and try again. If crank sensor or MAP/TMAP sensors are not connected or faulty, you'll get problems especially. Make sure your spark plugs/wires are in good condition and connected in the correct order. It's easy to get 3 and 4 backward.
The other possibility is timing is off. You'll need to remove valve cover, crank pulley and timing cover to verify.
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Ok. I cleared the code and checked everything. Spark plugs are brownish and wires are good. Still doing the same thing.
I'm a little confused how the timing is off when I put the chain and sprocket at the same spot where I marked the chain and sprocket prior. Where did I go wrong when aligned the marks? I'm no SAE certified mechanic. How do you verify the timing once you take the timing cover off?
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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I am saying the timing MIGHT be off. If you are confident that this is correct, then look elsewhere for the root cause to your problem. The 100% way to verify timing is to remove cam sprocket and realign the chain bright links with the arrows on the crank and cam sprockets.
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Thank you so much for your help . I have attached pictures how I marked the cam sprocket and where the marked chain will be positioned. And also to show you where my cylnder #1 was bad.
I will look elsewhere for the problem. I will keep you posted. Again thank you. |
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Would you be able to explain this issue I found? I let the engine idle as it was in a limp mode just to observed the engine. I pressed the bypass valve to see what happen and the engine sounds better and less limp mode. Could it be I have a bad bypass valve? I let my friend step on the acceleration pedal to its high rev which is 2000 rpm for 3 minutes so I can observed the engine more. I then press the bypass valve again the engine have no limp mode and sound normal. But I notice the exhaust manifold was turning hot red! How can this be? What is going on?
Next I stop the engine. Let it cool down. Now I let it idle for 10 minutes and the rpm is around 700-800 and I notice again the exhaust manifold started slowly to turn hot red. I also checked my oil level and it was gone! Where did it go? This is starting to be a can of worms.
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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Glowing red even when just at idle? Your bypass valve may be bad but I think your timing may be off. I don't know where your oil is going. Did you meticulously clean the head and block? Is there black or or blue smoke?
Edited by CORNERS - April/30/16 at 11:19pm |
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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After the engine was assembled. I started the car and it fired right up! and the smoke was blue for a couple minutes than desipated and than I get the knocking, shaking engine noise and limp effect.
Yes, when idle for about 10 plus minute it slowly glowing red. If I rev to its highest, i.e. 2k rpm it even glow quicker. After that I checked my oil level the oil was not present on the oil dip stick. No smoke present during the glowing red. I cleaned the block cylinder by spraying brake cleaner and gently scrape the grime off. Pretty much it was clean like the way you did on your video. while the head was sent to the machine shop for cleaning, pressure test and surface cylinder head. I'm going to order the bypass valve. If this doesn't fix the problem than you are maybe right that the timing might be off. I'm not a mechanic, but if the timing is off wouldn't it be hard to start the car? The car starts up right away every time with no issue. Still can't figured out how I made that mistake if the timing is off if that was the case. All the marked points aligned. I even made 3 marks just to make sure. Today I double checked all fews and all are ok.
Do you have a some kind of a diagram how to re-set the timing? Some sketches that show where the arrow need to align with other parts? I am a more of a visual person. Hence I'm a car designer. Thank for the help. I"m learning a lot from this. |
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Here is a link to my video what the engine sounds like. Please let me know if this shed some light to my problems. Thank you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y0K6upDd0Y&feature=youtu.be |
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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From the interior while reving.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7R9SJkPqc4 |
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CORNERS
PSMINI Expert Advisor PSMINI Member Joined: July/29/10 Location: Bothell, WA Status: Offline Points: 3733 |
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I don't know what's going on but sounds like it's misfiring/detonating, maybe unburned fuel getting around somewhere or exhaust is blocked.
I don't have a timing diagram. Set chain so that the two bright links match the two arrows on the crank sprocket. and the one link matches the single arrow on the cam sprocket. When you put the tensioner back in, all the tension should be on the tensioner side of the belt.
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Thank you. I will look into it this weekend. Will keep you posted.
How much involved to remove the time chain cover? Is it the same process as changing the head gasket?Currently I have a 2% ATI pulley installed. Thank you for all of the suggestions and advices. Much appreciated!
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Hi Corner,
I got sometime this weekend and torn down my engine again. I need your suggestion before moving forward with the timing chain correction. As you can see in the images...I have realigned the crank sprocket arrows with the bright links rotating it clockwise. see image before and after. However, as I aligned the cam sprocket arrow with the single bright link, my camshaft dowl does not align with the cam sprocket keyhole. In the image I moved the cam sprocket to the left a little just for clarity where the dowl is at. My question is...can I unscrew the camshaft 10 bolts and rotate the shaft to position where it needs to be? Will this mess up the timing if I do this? Your suggestions is appreciated. Sorry for the first two images not vertical. Thank you. |
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Bansasn
MINI Motorer Joined: April/08/16 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Ok. Went forward with it. Timing is good! Car started up nicely. Still got the "limp home mode" but the engine sounds a lot better than before. I found out that my wire harness that connected to the TB has now electric current. Even when I unplugged the connector the car still run "limp mode" no change in engine noise. I'm think my engine wire harness might be bad. All fuses are good. I get the code P0122.
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